Rockline Radio
John Lydon
Interviewed on August 18th, 1997
Interviewed by Bob Coburn
(BC: Bob Coburn - JL: John Lydon)
Announcer: "Tonight, Rockline brings you a special evening of conversation and your calls for Johnny Lydon and KoRn's Jonathan Davis. To speak with either of tonight's Johns, call our toll-free number at 1-800-344-ROCK. That's 1-800-344-7625. Now, our very own little Sex Pistol, Bob Coburn!"
BC: Look out! I am loaded and ready to shoot. So back off, all right?!
JL: Jesus.
BC: After performing with the legendary and trend-setting bands that we all know about, "Psycho's Path" is amazingly the first solo album by John Lydon. And Rockline welcomes one of the legendary figures in rock and roll. John, good evening and nice to have you here. How you doing?
JL: All right. But that introduction was a bit cheesy, weren't it?
BC: Well, we can blame Jeff back in Chicago for that.
JL: Johnny Lydon?! That makes me sound right friendly! Very bad for my image.
BC: Well, why do you find it cheesy? Let's start with that. Why do you find it cheesy? Do you prefer John?
JL: Yep. Thank you.
BC: Ok, well we'll tell Jeff next time you're on to call you John.
JL: Thank you.
BC: Would that make you feel better?
JL: Yes. As long as I get my own way, I'm happy.
BC: Ok. Well, we'll try and give you your own way - within certain limitations. Why three years for "Psycho's Path"? Why three years you've been working on that?
JL: Change of record labels, run out of money, all the usual.
BC: Ran out of money?
JL: Yeah.
BC: That's honest enough. You've never been one to pull punches anyway. And lyrically you certainly don't do that. You really write from a visceral point of view, don't you?
JL: No, an honest point of view.
BC: And you don't think that's gut level, gut feeling?
JL: Well, it's the easiest thing I can do. So therefore, I do that. And I do it very well, I think.
BC: I think you did well. And I think when we listen to the album tonight, that will be an exemplary moment. You call yourself a really bad musician. That's your trade, though. What do you mean by that?
JL: Well, I don't like working with so-called "real musicians" because to me they're too narrow and insular. They see things in terms of categories and chords. Well, they don't experiment enough. Free form. I don't believe in writing a song as verse chorus, verse chorus. It's what flows quite natural to me. Is to be against that. I like the idea of categories, but I like screwing with them.
BC: If you are indeed, as you say yourself, a bad musician, then what makes it work? Because it does.
JL: Talent.
BC. Talent?
JL: All right! You got me there! I'm not really a bad musician, I'm a very good one!
BC: You're an outstanding musician. Everyone pales in comparison to John Lydon.
JL: Thank you.
BC: You're welcome.
JL: I hope you got that on camera.
BC: We got that on camera, as a matter of fact, and we got it on the radio - which is our main focus tonight. We're gonna play a song, "Sun". There really aren't any traditional musical instruments in this song. What is in this particular song that you used?
JL: Well, an accordion thrown down a staircase, a bunch of cardboard boxes, no real drum kit. Just fun. And it ended up as "Sun".
BC: How'd you get a percussive sound without a drum kit?
JL: Well, drum sticks, but just basically bashing a bunch of boxes in the front room.
BC: Now this could've easily gone out of control, but yet you somehow reigned it in and made it cohesive, didn't you?
JL: Well, then I'd blame that on my pop sensibility.
BC: (laughs)
JL: Cause that's what it is - it's a pop song. And I like pop music.
BC: There's a recurring line in this song, "I'm never happy with what surrounds me." Do you think that we, as humans, have the right to expect happiness in this world?
JL: No. But it is fun to complain, isn't it? I mean, everybody enjoys that. That's the best aspect of any holiday is the fact that nothing works to your liking.
BC: Well, life's pretty much pretty much that way - nothing works to your liking, does it?
JL: That's right.
BC: We should play "Sun" now, shouldn't we?
JL: Certainly should.
BC: John Lydon on Rockline.
(plays "Sun")
BC: That is the first single from "Psycho's Path" by John Lydon. "Sun" is the name of that. At what point in the song does the accordion fly down the staircase?
JL: All over it, really. I mean, I just taped it once, recorded it once, and then slung it into a keyboard and just dropped it in.
BC: Sampled it from there, huh?
JL: Yeah. I make all my own samples. I know it's fashionable for lots of bands out there to steal off each other, but sorry, I make my own sounds.
BC: It's not stealing. It's a tribute, John.
JL: No, it's not. It's ethnic forgery.
BC: John Lydon joining us tonight talking about, amongst other things, the new album "Psycho's Path". A little later on, Jonathan Davis from KoRn will join us to take your calls. We'll play some cuts from "Life is Peachy". Right now, if you'd like to speak with John Lydon, call us toll free at 1-800-344-ROCK - 1-800-344-7625. Rockline is brought to you by AT&T.
JL: All better still, don't ring!
(commercial break)
Show Announcer: "...be very, very afraid!"
BC: You know, Jeff, at six foot three - 220 pounds, I'm not afraid of much but I am on guard. But I'm really concerned about your safety if you keep calling him Johnny tonight. So you may be the one that's-
JL: The name's John, sod! Get it right!
BC: There you go! Like to win one of the 97 Rockline AT&T calendars? Just send a postcard with your name, address and the station you're listening to the Rockline on and mail it to 97 Rockline Calendar, P.O. Box 4383, Hollywood, California 90078. Rockline calendars are provided by AT&T. To the phones we head for John Lydon to San Diego, California. Steve is on the air. Hi.
Steve: Hi. I know that several of the venues on the solo tour, so far, have been canceled. The question I have - is the actual rest of the solo tour been canceled?
JL: Yeah.
Steve: Ok.
JL: Due mostly to complete lack of interest on behalf of Virgin Records. Who failed to promote properly and failed to give me any support, really, at all. So rather than going off half-cocked, I've stopped it for the moment and I intend to do it properly sometime in the future. That might be with Virgin Records - if they change their tune. It also might not be.
BC: They've pulled the tour support...
JL: No, not pulled it. Just, really, never promoted the record. I mean, it's just not been available in any of the towns I've been going to.
BC: You sound a little upset about this. I know I would be.
JL: Well, it's not exactly what I was promised.
BC: What were you promised?
JL: That they would be fully behind me. And I've not really seen that. Anyway, that's just my personal moan. And you asked, so I answered.
BC: You've just been too busy with the Spice Girls, haven't you John?
JL: Oh, please.
BC: (laughs)
JL: Ten foot pole comes to mind.
BC: All right! Now we're starting to get going here! Let's head to Edmonton, Alberta. We have Dimitri on the line-
JL: (interrupting - possibly saying:) Seemed to get lost real quick on them, didn't it?
BC: -and Dimitri, welcome.
Dimitri: Hi. I was wondering, what do you consider punk rock these days?
BC: What was that, Dimitri? I think John was speaking.
JL: Sorry, I was envisioning my ten foot pole!
Dimitri: I was wondering - what do you consider punk rock these days?
JL: I don't. There isn't no such thing anymore. That's something that happened way back in the late 70's. Historically, that's where it belongs. You gotta move on. Anyone imitating that now in the 90's is a bit of a fool. You should have your own thing and stop looking up to Granddad.
BC: Is there a 90's version of punk, do you think? That it's evolved into something else? That perhaps has a - everybody likes to name things - it has been pigeon holed as another type of music?
JL: Well, why would you want to be so unoriginal as to copy something else? I mean, hasn't that always been my message - is to stay ahead of all that crap! Don't imitate. It's not a form of flattery, it's a form of laziness.
BC: Do you think punk died with you and some of the previous bands you've been with?
JL: I never liked the label in the first place. I've never accepted it - the nonsense. There was the Sex Pistols and there was a whole bunch of imitators - the end.
BC: Granddad Lydon with us this evening. (laughs) You're not gonna take a shot back at me?
JL: It's better that Johnny, isn't it?
BC: It is better than Johnny. I guess you're right there. Let's go to Toronto and talk with Bill. Bill, you're on with John Lydon.
Bill: Hi. I was wondering what you're most proud of in your career?
JL: Being me.
BC: Why would that make you proud? What are you proud of in you?
JL: Well, I've stared in the face of great adversity and shunned!
BC: You've also written a great song in the new album called "Grave Ride". Which is inspired by the situation in Bosnia. Why don't you set that song up for us right now and we'll play it.
JL: (making funny English accent) Uh, listen to this - it's really good, like!
BC: That's why he's so proud of himself, ladies and gentlemen.
(plays "Grave Ride")
BC: "Let's hope it's not a grave." "Grave Ride" by John Lydon from "Psycho's Path". The brand new CD from John. We're gonna move to Akron, Ohio now and speak with Tony. Tony, you are on the air.
Tony: Good evening. Mr. Lydon, any regrets along the way with your career?
JL: None. Next question...
BC: Ok. Boy, that was emphatic.
JL: That's the truth, isn't it? What's the point in hindsight?
BC: I say hindsight's 20/20.
JL: I've met lots of awful people and awful record companies along the way, but that's, you know, neither here nor there.
BC: There you go, Tony. Thanks for being on the air. We head to Baltimore to talk with Bob. Bob, you're on with John Lydon.
Bob: Hi, Johnny. I was wondering, what would be the strangest encounter you've ever had with any fan that went to any one of your shows?
BC: With a fan?
JL: I'm married! I don't have strange encounters with my fans! Next question...
BC: (laughs) Certainly, someone's climbed up on stage, somebody's done something while you've been up there. You've missed a step and gone into an orchestra pit... I mean, it seems like something like that would've happened to you over the years.
JL: Oh no, I don't confess to mistakes. Sorry! Next!
BC: Were gonna talk to Todd in Columbus, Ohio now. And Todd, you're on with John Lydon.
Todd: Hey, what's up John? You sound great, dude!
JL: (imitating American accent) Why, thank you.
Todd: Why, thank ya! Do you have any one particular person or band that's helped you - influenced you as far as getting started in the industry?
JL: Uh, no. I like all kinds of music. In fact, I like most music. I just don't like many of the people that make it. (laughs)
BC: Not a fan of musicians, are you? Huh?
JL: Well, you know, every time I run into someone I think I got any respect for, they always turn out to be a right a-hole. I suppose that that's just the way it is. They let their egos get in the way and they're not themselves anymore.
BC: They begin to believe their own press?
JL: Yep. Or their own hired-hands.
BC: Anybody out there now that you like and admire? Any particular band?
JL: Mmm... none come to mind.
BC: What about the 20th anniversary passing of Elvis Presley? Does that mean anything at all to you?
JL: Well, he's dead, isn't he?! What do you want to-
BC: He's been dead for twenty years!
JL: What do you want to bring that old fart up for?!
BC: Because, I'm curious as to what your reaction is.
JL: Dreadful old windbag! And I think somebody should point out that his so-called "illustrious career" - he never, not once, wrote a single song.
BC: Well, there we go. That's why I brought that up, so I can hear your response to it. We want to know what you think about these things.
JL: Happy now, are you? Happy? (laughs)
BC: I'm getting happier. I'm getting there. Slowly, but surely I'm getting there. Let's talk to Felicia. Felicia's in Lapeer, Michigan. Welcome to the show, Felicia.
Felicia: Hello.
JL: (imitating) Hello!
BC: (laughs)
Felicia: Who is your favorite of all the new female singers?
JL: None of them. I think they're all bitches! (laughs)
BC: (laughs) Don't have any at all, huh? But you certainly do like to mimic the callers, don't you? You seem to be enjoying the American accents and having a little fun with people calling on the air tonight.
JL: In a nice pleasant way. No harm meant.
BC: Felicia's not a bitch then, huh?
JL: Absolutely not.
BC: Ok, all right. Ask about a TV show. I'm thinking, something says to me - you've done Tom Snyder, you've done Politically Incorrect. What about you hosting a show? Have you ever considered that?
JL: Yes.
BC: What would you like to do? What type of show?
JL: I'd like to host a show! (laughs)
BC: (laughs) Well, what would you want it to be? Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom with animals?
JL: Well, there's something in the works! Strangely enough that you bring it up. But I can't tell you what, yet.
BC: Oh, come on! Don't bait me like that, John Lydon!
JL: No no no!! Nope! You can wait!
BC: Ah man, you got people on a nationwide audience in two countries here-
JL: But I promise, it will definitely be unusual.
BC: I pretty much would go for that.
JL: Probably unwatchable too! (laughs)
BC: Probably, as well, yeah. But you said that, not I. I'm Bob Coburn. We'll be back with John Lydon in just a few moments.
JL: (imitating American accent) Tell it like it is!
BC: Jonathan Davis from KoRn will join us. You can call toll-free at 1-800-344-ROCK. Must be Rockline!
(commercial break)
BC: (laughs) They make wetsuits, John.
JL: Oh, balls to all that.
BC: (laughs)
JL: Sounds like physical activity. Yawn!
BC: Uh oh. Can't have that! Can't have that. Major couch potato, here. From "Psycho's Path", John Lydon - this is "Take Me" on Rockline.
(plays "Take Me")
BC: "Psycho's Path", the name of the album. John Lydon, our guest right now on Rockline. "Take Me" from the brand new album. That's the third song we played from the album. John seems to be pretty happy with that. That seemed to give you a mild thrill.
JL: Yeah, but why don't you play "Psychopath", the song itself?
BC: Well, we thought about that. But we-
JL: I'm sure that would impress your listeners to no end! (laugh)
BC: Yes. Well, you know we do have some rules that we have to follow here on the radio here in North America, so... We're gonna play "Pretty Vacant" here in a little while. And John wasn't that thrilled-
JL: But you mean my songs might actually offend someone?
BC: Oh... possibly. We can debate that for a while. Speaking of "Pretty Vacant"-
JL: I'm not. And I wish you wouldn't play that.
BC: Well, actually, we're going to. You have no choice in the matter.
JL: All right. Bye. I'm off now.
BC: You're off now? Ok. Yeah. Yeah, walk away and let's see that happen. And listen to me trash the album as you walk out the door.
JL: You put that on and I'm off.
BC: Um, does Johnny Rotten still exist?
JL: That is me. So, yes, I can guarantee it.
BC: Now for a while you dropped it and then you reclaimed it. And I guess there were legal problems that you went through.
JL: I never dropped it. Just somebody claimed they owned it. An old manager enemy of mine.
BC: Double-M? Mr. McLaren?
JL: Yeah. Mumbling Moron.
BC: Mumbling Moron. Double-M. Did you come up with that now, or have you used that for years?
JL: Inspiration.
BC: Inspiration. To Kansas City, we have Brian. You're on with John Lydon.
Brian: Yeah, I really respect your straight-forward honest attitude to people. And I wondered if there's any one incident that shaped your attitude?
JL: Birth!
BC: Birth! (laughs)
JL: And I never looked back! (laughs)
BC: (laughs) Traumatic enough, wasn't it?! Yeah! Birth who? Is it someone we might know?
JL: Nope!
BC: The moment you left the womb, huh?
JL: I even wrote a song about it.
BC: Took a look around and, uh... And the name of that song is?
JL: "Tie Me to the Length of That".
BC: Yeah.
JL: When I was born, the doctor did not like me. He grabbed my ankles, held me like a turkey. Dear Mummy: Why'd you let him hit me? And this was wrong, I knew you did not love me.
BC: That is straight-forward enough. Brian, thank you for the call. We'll take another. This is Ken on the line from Baltimore, Maryland-
JL: Cheerful, huh?! (laughs)
BC: Very cheerful! I'm certainly in a good mood now, I'm ready for Christmas! Ok, Ken, you're at it.
Ken: Hi. Is music still exciting for you there, Johnny?
JL: Absolutely!
BC: John! It's John! (laughs)
JL: Absolutely!
BC: Why?
JL: It's what I enjoy doing. I always have. I can do exactly what I want, and there's nobody there to tell me otherwise. Who could ask for anything more?
BC: Now this is considered your first solo record. But wasn't PiL, for all intents and purposes, in the last few years, pretty much a solo project for John Lydon?
JL: No, it was a company of people. It was a give and take affair. There were some albums there, that were just me completely alone. But I was generous enough to share the money!
BC: Yes. There were a lot of people in that band over the years. Thirty seven at one count?
JL: (laughs)
BC: Is that the truth?
JL: No, that's what was in the audience! (laughs)
BC: (laughs)
JL: Get it right!
BC: And not all them were paying customers, were they? Yes, paying for the-
JL: Many of them are now in imitation bands.
BC: Sincerest form of flattery. To Palm Springs - Christian, you're on the air.
Christian: Hey, first of all I want say I loved your TV commercial, John. And, uh-
JL: Oh, what - the Mountain Dew thing?!
Christian: Yeah.
JL: (laughs) I loved the money from it! Do you think anybody actually bought that cause of me howling all over the top?!
Christian: I drank a case that day.
JL: Aaw! Must be still ill!
Christian: I have a two-part question for you. Are you getting any royalties off the body-piercing craze?
JL: No!
BC: I wonder how you could, first of all.
JL: And you think I'd own a safety pin company by now, but I don't! (laughs)
BC: (laughs)
Christian: Twenty years ago, the safety pins and the outlandish body-piercing was not only a personal statement, but a political one, too. Do you think it means the same thing these days, or just a fad?
JL: No, it's just a fad now. Just a fad. About as much content in it as Prodigy.
BC: Hoo! We got a band-slam going here! Got a bland-slam!
JL: (laughs) Well, really I mean, I should put a lawsuit out on that lot! Talk about ripping my fucking stuff off. What a fraud.
BC: (laughs)
JL: Oops! (laughs)
BC: Oops! My goodness. We got a little bit too real here this evening on Rockline, didn't we?!
JL: What a fraud! (laughs)
BC: You know, they're not big fans of yours, either - apparently. I think that's kind of a mutual-
JL: Oh, I think they are! Cause they copy me lock, stock and barrel!
BC: There you go. All right, you got me on that one. Anybody else along that ilk, that you don't like? Rage Against the Machine? Any of those particular bands?
JL: Oh no, they've got a real good guitarist! It's just that twaddly moaning over the top, I don't appreciate.
BC: I was trying to find somebody you like! Some aspect of someone!
JL: (laughs)
BC: Can we get Christian back here? I want to ask Christian something about the ad. Is he still on the line? We got him? Christian, what do you like about the soda drink ad?
Christian: Just the fact that it's him. And that was, when I saw it - it was - that was the last person I would expect to see on a TV commercial for a soda.
JL: I know. And the whole thing is ridiculous! Which is perfect!
Christian: I know. That's what really impressed me the most. My hat off to you.
JL: Cheers, mate.
BC: See, you liked more than just the money. You liked the fact that it was ridiculous and it was fun and frivolous too, didn't you?
JL: Well, and I liked the work, too. Cause, I got to use my studio and be paid for it. So it was thrilling.
BC: Now you said at one point, you did the Sex Pistols reunion tour for money.
JL: Mm-hmmm.
BC: What else would you do for money?
JL: Oh well, there's a whole bunch of other reasons. But I slung that one in before anyone could sling it at me! (laughs)
BC: (laughs) Take the offensive sometimes. It's the best defense, isn't it?
JL: Absolutely.
BC: Anything else that you'd do for money?
JL: Quite a lot of things, but you're not included in any of them! (laughs)
BC: Thank you very much! I'll take that as a compliment. Let's go to Detroit and talk with Bob. Bob, you're on the air.
Bob: Hi, Johnny. Do you ever feel obligated to live up to your "Rotten" reputation?
JL: No.
Bob: No? You don't feel obligated?
JL: No, I don't need to cartoon myself. I leave that to Prodigy! (laughs)
BC: We're having a little fun at Prodigy's expense this evening. You really take offense to them, don't you?
JL: No. I think they're an all right pop band. A bit fake. But really, you know, the whole hair and the bondage suit... it's all rip off, you know? Hello! Done that along time ago.
BC: Ok. Been there, done that. Let's go to Ft. Wayne, Indiana. Joe wants his turn. Joe, you're on with John.
Joe: Ok. Hi, John.
JL: Hello.
Joe: All right, what has been your favorite bad review of anything you've done musically?
JL: My favorite bad review?
Joe. Mm-hmm.
BC: Ooh, the L.A. Times had some fun the other day.
JL: Did they? I didn't read that!
BC: Yeah, we'll have to give you a copy on the way out.
JL: Oh, there's been enough, you know. Whenever you release any (*censored from broadcast*). That's their job, isn't it? To be bitches. That's fine. I don't mind it at all.
BC: Do you have the attitude that those who can make music do, and those who can't, complain about it?
JL: Yeah.
BC: Yeah.
JL: Absolutely.
BC: Thanks for the call, Joe. Let's talk with Jack in Middletown, New York. Jack - I'm sorry, Zach - you're on.
Zach: What is the most misunderstood thing about John Lydon?
JL: Misunderstood? Well, I think I speak very clearly! (laughs)
BC: (laughs)
JL: If there's anything in me that confuses you, I suggest you-
BC: Very articulate, very outspoken, yes.
JL: I suggest you use Q-Tips.
BC: Do you think you've been misrepresented over the years by anything?
JL: Yeah, well, a lot of people like to talk for me and not listen to me.
BC: And that bothers you?
JL: Yeah. I don't like people putting words in my mouth.
BC: Well, remind me not to do that this evening, ok? I'd like you to leave on good terms. But I am gonna play that song. I am gonna play "Pretty Vacant" right now.
JL: That'd be the last thing you do then.
BC: Well, you stay through that and then we'll say good-bye to you then. And then we'll welcome Jonathan from KoRn-
JL: No, no! Let's say good-bye now.
BC: You want to say good-bye now?
JL: Oh, yeah - I don't want to hear it at all. I'm fed up with all that old stuff.
BC: That's fine with me, if you want to say good-bye now, we can say good-bye now.
JL: Yeah. Cheers.
BC: It's been nice having you here. Good luck with the album.
JL: All right, mate.
BC: And I'm sorry the tour didn't work out. And I hope you end up with a record label that will support you.
JL: It will. It will. You know.
BC: Ok, well if you don't want to hear "Pretty Vacant", you better leave the room now, cause we're gonna play it on Rockline.
JL: All right. Cheers! I'm off!
BC: Ok. All right, he's leaving. All right, that's it. It's "Pretty Vacant"...
(plays "Pretty Vacant")