Politically Incorrect
February 28, 2000

Guests on this program were:

John Henton
Kathy Ireland
Randy Tate
John Lydon

Screen captures from this show are available in the Images section.

 

Bill's Opening

Bill: Thank you very much.
What a happy crowd.
I know why you're happy today.
This is big news in American politics.
John McCain took on the religious right today.
I don't think this has been done in 20, 30 years in American politics.
He gave them what for in their home state in Virginia.
He's like, "You, guys, are bigots."

[ Laughter ]

He did.
He said they were divisive and unamerican.
He really went after them.
Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson.
He mentioned them by name.
And of course, they fired back.
And the only way they know -- always insinuating someone is gay.

[ Laughter ]

Robertson said that don't forget during the war, McCain was "Held by Charlie."

[ Laughter ]

[ Applause ]

Yeah.
It's getting kind of weird.
Bush -- George W. Bush he had to apologize for what he did at Bob Jones university.
Anybody go to a school named Bob?

[ Laughter ]

Which is, you know, the university that has a very shaky history about their religious tolerance or intolerance.
He said he regretted going there and not speaking out against religious intolerance.
I think his drug past came back because he said, "We shouldn't have lines that divide people.
We should have people dividing up lines."

[ Laughter ]

And I --

[ Cheers and applause ]

Speaking of dividing people, how about what's going on in New York?
As you probably know, over the weekend, the cops in the Diallo case, you know, the guy that was shot 41 times, or shot at 41 times.
They only hit him 19.

[ Laughter ]

He was acquitted, peaceful protest.
Would you think of that in New York, peaceful protest?
But I think the racism is coming out in this trial.
Because Giuliani today said there was something suspicious about Diallo.
He said, "What was a black man doing with a wallet?"

[ Laughter ]

And finally --
if you thought that was over the edge, wait until you hear this.

[ Laughter ]

A woman in Oberlin, Ohio, is facing 16 years in prison for just taking photos of her 8-year-old daughter taking a bath.
That's the country we live in.
And the lesson here folks, if you have a beautiful young daughter and you enjoy taking pictures of her, do as they do in Boulder and make sure to kill her afterwards.

[ Applause ]


Panel Discussion

Bill: All right, let's meet our panel.
He's a political analyst and director of Republican affairs for voter.com, Randy Tate.
Randy!

[ Cheers and applause ]

Randy: Thank you.

Bill: Thank you.
One of the original Sex Pistols.
His new talk show "Rotten Radio."
Is on iyida.com, and his film "The Filth and the Fury" opens in April, Johnny Lydon.
John!

[ Cheers and applause ]

Good to see you.
How are you?

John Lydon: Welcome back.

Bill: He is one of the fine stars of "The Hughley's" Fridays at 9:30 right here on ABC.
John Henton.
Johnny.

[ Cheers and applause ]

How are you?

John Henton: What's up, Bill?

Bill: You look good as always.
She's a chair.
She's a good-looking chair.
Let me tell you.
Oh, a chair for the March of Dimes walk.

[ Laughter ]

Did he just belch?
America 2000 has designed her first "Butterrick," I thought that said buttock, Vogue pattern collection coming out this spring.
Kathy Ireland.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Hey, you.
How are you doing?

Kathy: Good.

Bill: Thank you.

[ Applause ]

What does that mean "Butterrick"?
I never heard that word.

Kathy: That's a really good question.
They've been around forever.
My mom always made clothes for us.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: Don't belch again.

John Lydon: Okay.

Bill: We're going to talk about the Christian conservatives, which you know, you are a member of that --
or used to be.

Randy: I used to be the executive director.

Bill: Executive director of the Christian Coalition.
Okay.
What a day for you to be here because this is the day that John McCain --

Randy: That's what I thought.

Bill: Well, good booking.
The day that John McCain did this.
And you know, it used to be said that you couldn't win without the religious right.
Obviously John McCain feels that not only can you win without them, but you can go into the --
he did this in Virginia beach about two miles from their headquarters, go right into their home nest and say, "You know what, you guys basically are wrong" and what's more important I think, is he's saying you don't matter.

John Lydon: Some courage.

Randy: In California where you have super Tuesday coming up a week from tomorrow, 40% of the Republican electorate are self-identified religious conservatives.
It's a risky gamut on McCain's part.
Because at the one hand, he wants to distance himself from the leaders, but on the other hand --

John Lydon: So why don't you run your own party and leave the Republicans alone.

Randy: He will be painted with a broad brush that would alienate voters -- that would alienate voters out there.
And I think it's a risky gamble.

Bill: What's the difference between what people say they are and what they really are?
People say they are religious, of course, the same way they say they don't masturbate.
You know, I mean --

[ Laughter ]

I mean, this is what America wants right here.

John Henton: Thank you.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: They want "Butterrick," whatever it is, they want it.

Randy: It's a risky strategy, bill.
We'll see on super Tuesday whether it works.
But I'm telling you, if you paint with a broad brush leaders, those same people that follow those issues still may be alienated.

John Henton: But don't you think it's kind of risky for George Bush to say that he's pro-life, pro-life, pro-life, pro-life.
And then kill a grandma last week.

Randy: Well, I think --

John Henton: Either a life is sacred or it's not.
It's not about a fetus or somebody that killed somebody.
If somebody killed somebody, you put them in jail.
But you don't have the right to play God.
If you are not going to play God in the beginning, don't play God.

Randy: But the law --

[ Applause ]

John Henton: I know the law.
Forget the law.

Randy: The law says no.

John Henton: You are pro-life or you are pro-life.
All the way through.

John Lydon: Keep your religion out of politics.
That's your personal view.
Do not preach religion as politics to the population.

Bill: Talk like a true American.

[ Applause ]

John Lydon: You are so wrong on this.
If you believe in your Godly ways, fine.
Preach by example.
Do not go into a political forum unless you want to do that.
Then form your own party.

Randy: But you know what?

John Lydon: Stop [ bleep ] with politics and people's opinions.
You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong.

[ Cheers and applause ]

You're fascist.

Randy: What makes America great is the fact that all of us get to come here and have this discussion.
When you eliminate religious conservatives from the dialogue, I think --

John Lydon: If I vote McCain, it's 'cause I vote McCain.
If I vote Bush, it's 'cause I vote Bush.

Randy: Exactly.
And none of us are separating our personal views from this show, obviously.

John Lydon: Then get out of politics.

Bill: The question I asked based on today's news events, were they still relevant, I turn to Kathy Ireland.

[ Laughter ]

Kathy: Thank you.
Thank you.

Bill: I saw you raise your hand, that's why.

Kathy: You know --
what irritates me is the fighting on both sides.

Randy: Here.
Here.

Kathy: And I think it gives God a bad name when we are dragging him into this.
I think, you know, he's looking at this like, you guys are acting like a bunch of kids going back and forth.

Bill: Well, whose fault is that for dragging God into that?
Whose fault is that?
Isn't it the people who are running the religion?

Kathy: Well, I think that, I mean our country was founded one nation under God.
But to --

John Lydon: Under the presumption, also, that God was a he.

Kathy: One nation under God.

[ Laughter ]

Bill: Actually it wasn't.

Randy: Kathy makes a good point in all of this.
There needs to be a cease-fire.
People want to hear about issues.
They don't want to hear about --

Kathy: It's getting diluted with the fighting, with the back and forth.
It's so ugly.
And it really turns people off.

Bill: Why is it an issue?
You say people want to talk about issues.

Randy: Right.

Bill: The religious right is not bringing up issues.
They are bringing up litmus tests.
Those aren't issues.

Randy: What you're talking about, when John McCain won the primary last week in Michigan and in the other state which I can't remember off the top of my head at this moment --

John Henton: Arizona.

Randy: Arizona, excuse me.

John Henton: He kicked his ass.

Randy: Didn't he?
Look what he laid out as his issues.
He said he was going to be a Reagan Republican.
He listed that he wanted to defend the unborn, make the military strong, he was focusing on issues.
George Bush is focusing on issues.
What happens is surrogates that support those candidates cross the line.

[ Talking at the same time ]

Bill: George Bush is focusing on money as he always has.

John Henton: And you don't think that they know that these other people are doing this for them?
They separate themselves from -- you don't think they know --

Randy: Having run -- as a recovering member --
as a recovering member of Congress, I can tell you that you don't know everyone that is supporting you.

John Henton: You are good.
I you ignored the hell out of me I know I just asked a question.

[ Applause ]

Go ahead.

Randy: They try to know what the issues are.
They try to know -- no, I think it's a legitimate question.
They try to know what's going on in a campaign.
But when you are running a nationwide campaign, you cannot keep track of every phone call, every yard sign that gets stolen.
Every piece of mail that gets laid on somebody's windshield.
Those things happen in campaigns.

Bill: Are you telling me that George Bush didn't know that pat Robertson was conducting a stealth smear campaign on his behalf?
Just like he said at Bob Jones university, he wasn't quite sure about the interracial dating policy.
He's a dummy and a bad liar.

[ Cheers and applause ]

John Lydon: He's not sure of anything actually, is he?

Bill: I have to take a commercial.
We'll be right back.

[ Cheers and applause ]


[ Applause ]

Bill: We were talking about John McCain and the religious right.
But let's broaden this out a little bit, because I really believe, I said this before on this show, that even though people in this country don't say they're liberal in Michigan, 17% of the people identified themselves as liberal.
That again, it's just one of things like masturbation.
They won't say it out loud, but they really are.
And here's proof, of course.

[ Applause ]

You were on the cover of this three times and probably in it many more than that.
It's pornography, which I'm for.

Kathy: No, it's not.

Bill: It's not pornography?
What's the difference?

Kathy: There's a level of taste.
There's a level of class.

John Lydon: Can we taste?

[ Cheers and applause ]

Bill: Okay.
There's a level of --

John Henton: That's class there.

[ Applause ]

Bill: That's taste and class there.

John Henton: There's lots of taste and class there.

Bill: Okay, that's the front cover.
Look at the back cover of this magazine.
It's an ad for Scotch, looking right up the old --

John Lydon: Where did the bottle go?

Bill: I mean, that's America, America forgave Clinton for adultery.

Randy: Liberalism is dead.

Bill: The word is dead.

Randy: The word is dead.
It's gone the way of the woolly mammoth.
I mean, look --

Bill: That's reality.
Just the word.

Randy: But the last President to run as a liberal and get elected was Lyndon Johnson.

Bill: As a liberal.
You are not hearing me.

Kathy: Can I say something?
I think --

John Lydon: Democrat, Republican, liberal, Libertarian, to me they are all dead.
Oh, no, I don't like your laugh.

Kathy: I agree with you in the fact that I don't like giving labels.
I don't like giving people labels.
I think it's important to remember that liberalism is responsible for some very important things in our country like giving blacks and woman the vote.
And depending on what it is, I'm conservative on some issues, I'm liberal on some.
I'm extremely liberal when it comes to protecting the rights of those who cannot protect themselves.
Who among us is more vulnerable than the unborn?

John Lydon: Wrong.
Those born are not --

Bill: But they're not among us.
That's the point.
They are not among us.
That's why they are unborn.
They are not among us.

Kathy: They are among us.

Bill: They are not among us.

Kathy: They're among us.

[ Cheers and applause ]

John Lydon: Bill, Bill, bill.

Bill: What are you, like the kid in "The Sixth Sense"?
I see unborn people.

John Lydon: Yes, these are unborn.

Kathy: Technology has come a long way since Roe vs. Wade with the ultrasound you can see --
no, you can't stop sex.

John Lydon: And you can't stop accidents.

Kathy: We must stand up to our responsibility.
We must take responsibility for your actions.

John Lydon: How about all the unwanted children out there, right now, at the moment?
You've got orphanages just full and raging.
You can educate people about sex, but you cannot deny sex.
Sex is fundamental to our species.
And the more of it the better.

Kathy: That's a good education for contraception, but not for murder.
That's a good argument for contraception but not for murder.

John Lydon: A late pregnancy is a disaster.
Very disruptive, not only to you, but to the potential of a human being.
But if you realize you are pregnant and you don't want it, that's your choice.
And that's no government, no religious group, no one should get between the woman and her pregnancy or unwanted pregnancy.
That is a decision of her own.

Kathy: Is it her body?

[ Cheers and applause ]

John Lydon: To do otherwise, you are evil.

[ Applause ]

Kathy: First of all, let me say one thing.

Bill: I gotta take a break.

John Lydon: You're the devil.


Announcer: Join us tomorrow when our guests will be Martin Short, "Family Law's" Julie Warner, performance artist Karen Finley and writer/reporter Tucker Carlson.

Bill: Okay.
We got to talking about abortion, which we've talked about before.
I know it's a subject dear to your heart.
And, you know, this week, news was made in France because they are giving out the morning-after pill to high school students.
Just the way we give out condoms in some high schools.
If you want, if you're a 13-year-old teenage girl in France and you have had an episode at a party the night before and they will give you the morning-after pill.
Which I don't think you can get away with that in this country.
But I don't know why that isn't a reasonable compromise because certainly after one day of whatever happened, you can't consider that, can you?

John Lydon: It's just an oily mess at that point.

[ Laughter ]

Kathy: It's a human being in its earliest stage, if a human being --
if you can --

John Henton: The day after?

Kathy: If you can tell me any shred of evidence that it's not a human being, not only will I shut up, I'll join the pro-choice side.
If you can show me any shred of evidence.

Bill: Okay, it couldn't be on the show.
I only have human beings on the show.
I've never booked an egg.

Kathy: No, I was pregnant with Lilly on your show.
So she was on your show.
You couldn't see her.
But --

Bill: But after one day?

Kathy: A human beings less valuable at a younger age than an older age?

Bill: Yes.

[ Laughter ]

Yes.
Of course we are.

John Henton: They just can't do nothing.
I'm grown, I can work.
I can make money.

John Lydon: An unwanted child is a far bigger disaster than a false --

Kathy: So do we kill all unwanted children?

John Lydon: You take a vote.
That's your personal opinion.
But you cannot inflict that view on others that disagree with you.

[ Cheers and applause ]

There's no freedom of choice in what you're saying.

Kathy: How about the freedom of choice for the unborn?

John Lydon: I don't buy that.

Randy: Johnny, a couple of points, one, you are talking are you for 86?

Bill: I am for it.

Randy: I know you are.
But it's is not necessarily taken one day after, it's taken one week after, three weeks after.
But I believe as Kathy does.
It's a life.

John Lydon: It's still none of your business.

John Henton: You don't know when they're taking that pill.
If something happened last night and I didn't have protection, I'm popping that pill.

[ Talking at the same time ]

Bill: If a clock radio was a party dress, you could wear it out.

Randy: But, Bill, it's a 13-year-old girl.

Bill: But it's not.

Randy: But if it's a 13-year-old girl, I agree with Kathy on the position.
But a 13-year-old girl, shouldn't the parents be involved in the most important decision that young girl is ever going to make?

John Lydon: Having sex, no.

[ Laughter ]

Randy: No, but the point is, they should.
There are emotional scars.
RU 486 is a dangerous thing to take, particularly for the child.

Bill: If the kid has to go to the parent, then it's a big thing.
If she just goes to the nurse, she doesn't have to tell the parent what happened.

Randy: But, Bill, you have to get permission in this country to get your ears pierced, to get aspirin at school.
Shouldn't you have to have your parents' involved in the most important decision a young girl will ever make?
I think that's pretty reasonable.

[ Applause ]

John Lydon: That's fine.

Randy: We're talking about a 13-year-old girl.

John Lydon: I agree because, yes.
Because that's about family.
I understand, but the child shouldn't be forced to have a pregnancy it doesn't want.
And deal with that, monsier.

[ Cheers and applause ]

Randy: But you -- once again, we're talk about a life.
If that child had a chance to vote --

Bill: We're not talking about a life.
We're talking about --

Kathy: It's a life.

John Henton: It's an egg.

Bill: It's not even an egg yet.
It's one day.
It's particularly something you could have wiped away with a tissue.

Kathy: Show me some evidence it's not a human being.

Bill: Let me reverse that.
Tell me the evidence it is a human.

Kathy: A moment after conception the genetic blueprint is complete.
We have our blood type, our fingerprints, the sex is determined at the moment of conception.
We know it is life.
What kind of life is it?
According to the laws of biogenesis, all life comes from preexisting life.
Each species reproduces after its own kind.
So human beings can only reproduce other human beings.

John Lydon: But then they're unwanted.

Kathy: Susan Smith's children --
Susan Smith's children were unwanted, does that make it okay that she drove them into a lake, because they were unwanted?

John Henton: -- Happens when you force people to have babies that can't take care of them.
That's the kind of stuff that happens.

[ Applause ]

You get abused children.
You got abused children all over this country.
You got people getting abused in foster homes.
Do you know how many people, how many little girls are getting molested all of the time?
The answer might have been if that parent didn't have to have that kid.
That child might not have had to suffer.

Kathy: Then that's a good argument for contraception.
It's not a good argument for eliminating human beings.

John Henton: I'm just saying, that one day, pill thing sound good to me.

Kathy: It would, except the only problem is --

John Henton: Girl might pop this thing and we don't know what went down.
Pop this pill and we'll be all right.
No problem.

Kathy: It's just a little bit late.

John Henton: It's a little itty-bitty thing with all your dna in there, but you still can't tell if it's a boy or girl.
You can't see nothing.
It's an egg.

Randy: There are people out there in line waiting to have children.
There are people out there that are waiting.

John Henton: They're not waiting for no black kid.

Randy: Absolutely, they are.
Absolutely, there's people out there that can't have children, that want to adopt children, that have to actually leave this country to go adopt children.

Bill: I have to adopt this --

[ Cheers and applause ]


[ Applause ]

Bill: All right, folks, "Butterrick," you don't need to know what it is.
You just want it.
I don't know what it is, either.
Tomorrow, we have Martin Short, Julie Warner, Karen Finley and Tucker Carlson.

[ Cheers and applause ]